Man, w-h-y is he doing this? I'm scratching my head on this. OK, so the march isn't his bag, why not simply say nothing rather than to continue tossing out the barbs? We already heard similar comments from him earlier in the week. (AP):
Rep. Barney Frank, an openly gay member of Congress, says he'd rather see gay rights supporters lobbying their elected officials than marching in Washington this weekend, calling the demonstration "a waste of time at best."
Frank said in an interview with The Associated Press that he considers such demonstrations to be "an emotional release" that does little to pressure Congress.
"The only thing they're going to be putting pressure on is the grass," the Massachusetts Democrat said Friday.
I don't get it, the continual need to do this sounds more like he keeps saying this stuff as if it will make the watch go away. It's not an either/or. I'd would love to see all of those people go and lobby their federal and state legislators, in fact I'd prefer that too, but it doesn't negate the value of this march, with Congress in session (it wasn't going to be originially) and now the President speaking at the HRC dinner.
Perhaps the Congressman from Massachusetts is concerned that there will be a media spotlight on the NEM because of the way things have worked out. The march will not be ignored and this may be an expression of the disdain for the netroots and grassroots interfering with business as usual in a very public and newsworthy way now. Who knows, but the continual public comments aren't becoming.
We should lobby our elected officials instead is all he's saying. Why can't we just take his advice to be more effective instead of taking it as a completely negative comment?
10/12/2009 2:20 PM
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Thomas
What do you think about Congresswoman Ileana Ros-Lehtinen Doug?
10/12/2009 12:53 PM
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Ryan
I don't think it's the case that a huge proportion of the Democratic Party is for gay rights, JD. At least, not to the extent that a lot of people around here would like them to be. At the same time, there are significant numbers of Democrats around the country, and even some in elected positions, that do greatly support LGBT equality. I point to the Democratic members of both houses of the California legislature who voted unanimously twice to extend marriage equality to same-sex couples.
I think Obama has a business in making promises as a way to signal Congress the types of legislation he will consider and the types of legislation he'd like to see passed.
How was he planning on delivering? He can't, on his own. It's ridiculous to expect Obama my himself to fix DOMA, to fix DADT, to fix immigration, just as it's ridiculous to blame Clinton solely for fucking them up.
so the republican presidential candidates don't bother to make any promises to us, and then they follow through by not keeping any promises to us. democratic presidential candidates make promises, and then don't follow through. even with a majority in both chambers. and then when they don't follow through, people defend them for two reasons: 1) they're better than the republicans (although as far as gay rights go they're effectively equal--a dem pres signed DADT and DOMA into law, after all), and 2) they never have enough 'political capital'.
please tell me, if such a huge proportion of the dem party is against gay rights that they can't even overturn DOMA and DADT when they have control of the legislative and executive branches, what business does a democratic president have in making promises to gays in the first place? he, of all people, should know his party isn't behind gay rights. it's obvious from their actions, if not their words. how was he planning on delivering?
Barney just doesn't want people to go to the march, feel empowered and satisfied, then go home. He wants people to bug the hell out of elected officials because there is more power to that. That's all. He knows people (like myself) can be content with only doing part of the job.
Sorry if he hurt your feelings, but the man is an elected official, so he might know how to play the game a little better.
He's missing part of the point.....marches like this give some our leader clout when they go to lobby in DC....do you think they are really going to listen to a single call or conversation from you average person? It takes number to get their attentions (whether that dollars or people)
Lady Gaga totally called out Barney Frank during the rally.
10/12/2009 2:27 AM
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Thomas
The closest thing to libertarians you will see in the us legislature are Ron Paul and the new Hampshire GOPers but they are also all pro life.
Some libertarians believe life over choice is more libertarian though so whatev
10/12/2009 2:22 AM
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Thomas
FYI doug libertarians look like republicans most of the time, the only things that disagree on are abortion, death penalty, immigration, and war. Libertarians don't technically support the kind of gay rights most of you look for, they are generally against enda, hate crimes, aids funding, and support no fed marriage benefits for anyone.
Rockefeller republicans are the non democrats that will generally agree with democrats on social issues, libertarians are on a whole diff plane
perhaps, and this is giving the guy a lot of credit, I'm not sure he deserves, he's using reverse psychology to get gay people fired up to march in great number. if he intended on it or not, it's working
If a 17-minute interview taxes your attention span (bless your little hearts), you might instead check out his biography on wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barney_Frank
There is no question that Frank is a friend to the GLBT community.
I've said it before, but it bears repeating. Those of you who think Barney Frank doesn't support gay issues should listen to the actual interview. Go to http://www.signorile?.com/2009/10/barney-?frank-march-is-usele?ss-stay-home.html and scroll down to the link. His comments have been taken way out of context. His point was simply that there are important issues for our community, that they must be prioritized, and that there are more effective ways to promote them than a march.
I happen to disagree with him about the march being useless, and he tends to express himself for dramatic effect, but the man didn't mean what you think he meant from those carefully selected quotes.
Obviously, it doesn't show much of your character to demonstrate (probably twice, if not more) that you supported the Republican platform- INCLUDING their take on marriage equality and equal rights for all people
Yeah, how dare I go against the will of the rest of the gay community; So much for diversity eh? Hypocrisy like that was one of the main reasons I left the Democrats.
It would depend on which one supports more issues I care about. I haven't even ruled out voting Democrat. But Bill Clinton was the last Democrat I voted for (both terms).
It makes more sense if you vote on issues other than gay issues. I would vote Libertarian before Democrat. Libertarians would, IMO, be more likely to actually deliver on gay issues anyway. The Democrat party treats the gay community like an abused girlfriend.
"It would if my entire identity revolved around being gay."
It apparently revolves around flexing a semi-developed bicep like some brachiating primate during mating season
10/11/2009 6:06 PM
0|-1
Ryan
Jeff, I could find examples from every state in the union. That Democratic presidents haven't done anything for you, gay-wise, doesn't mean that ALL Democrats don't do anything. A quick brush-up on civics will show you that the president can't dictate what policies he wants to follow; he has to work with Congress. Often, it's the Republicans preventing him from pursuing his gay-friendly policies.
If one of your goals is marriage equality, I don't understand how you can pursue this if you vote for Republicans. If lower taxes means more to you than marriage equality does, that's your choice, but don't tell us that the Democrats haven't done anything for us.
Thats great for California. But this is the second Democrat President to refuse to follow through with his promises. At least I know where I stand when it comes to Republicans. The "well at least they throw us a few crumbs" mentality is exactly what the Democrat party is counting on. They know you will vote for them either way, so why should they bother doing anything substantial?
"The Democrat party will continue to tell the gay community what they want to hear and then do nothing."
Oh, and the Republican Party does a better job? Perhaps there are SOME Dems in office that truly take the LGBT community for granted, but that's only because the LGBT folks that voted for them act like apathetic and complacent enablers
10/11/2009 5:37 PM
2|0
Thomas
I disagree Jeff, The RR is much better at convincing the GOP to give them what they want because they actually can keep their vote from them and have done so in the past. We suck at it, but thats because Gays tend to not only care about their own issues but also vote based on other things, in contrast to the religious right who is happy to please on 2 things.
10/11/2009 5:35 PM
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Ryan
Jeff, every Democrat in the California Assembly and California Senate voted to extend marriage rights to same-sex couples in California...twice. The vast majority of the co-signors of a bill to end "Don't Ask Don't Tell" are Democrats. A Democratic president just extended federal benefits to same-sex couples who are employed by the federal government.
Yes, the Democratic (not the Democrat) Party could do more for LGBTs (just as they could do more for just about anyone) but to say that they do nothing is simply wrong.
Steve is right. The Democrat party treats the gay vote the same way the GOP treats the religious right...it's a secure vote anyway because what are their alternatives? The Democrats really have no incentive to cater to the gay community. They know gays will vote for them no matter what. The Democrat party will continue to tell the gay community what they want to hear and then do nothing.
"We would have a lot more influence if we put individual pressure on individual members of Congress."
Exactly, Brian- if some people would more effort into pressuring their elected officials to pass equality legislation, instead of spending their energy worrying about what Brit or Gaga is up to, perhaps we would have the freedoms that we, as a community, should have had from the get go
10/11/2009 5:09 PM
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Brian
Barney's cute and sloppy comment was not helpful, obviously, but I have worked a little in Washington and his point is well taken. We would have a lot more influence if we put individual pressure on individual members of Congress. They really do not pay much attention to marches or protests, but they do pay attention to phone calls and letters from constituents (less to emails). Call, be polite, and push for change, particularly with recalcitrant democrats. Most repuglicans don't care about us, but we should write and call them anyway.
Agreed, Ryan- Steve, if you feel you can do better, then I suggest you run for office
10/11/2009 4:12 PM
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todd
"STEVE, the Democrats aren't a monolithic bunch, and you're too smart to argue such. The Democratic Party is split on just about every issue, from health care to gay rights, and it's surely not as easy to repeal DADT as you make it seem. If it were, it would have happened already."
Word!! Besides, the republicans are ten times better at "circling the wagons" and possessing a "herd mentality" when it's needed.
10/11/2009 3:54 PM
1|0
Ryan
STEVE, the Democrats aren't a monolithic bunch, and you're too smart to argue such. The Democratic Party is split on just about every issue, from health care to gay rights, and it's surely not as easy to repeal DADT as you make it seem. If it were, it would have happened already.
If the Republicans offered us something other than rounding us up and sending us to camps, you'd have an argument for us to support the Republican Party. There's a lot of room to criticize the Democrats on inaction on LGBT issues, but you can't do so from the right.
What I find amazing is that at a time when Democrats control EVERYTHING and could change any law they wanted to - that Obama got standing ovations for saying the same things last night as he said two years ago when he was courting the gay vote from Hillary. Now that he is in office and has a filibuster-proof Senate and a House that can do anything - he's done nothing and suddenly there should be no protests or marches.
When the GOP is in charge people want marches, vigils and protests. When Democrats are in control and the gay vote is simply taken for granted - nobody seems to care. Don't let gays become like blacks where 80% of the group votes for a political party and they are still complaining about the same shit they were complaining about 20 years ago.
Mr Frank: Lobbying can get one into trouble and is individualized, its been done many years without much success, grouping in mass gets better attention, strength in numbers......
I agree with Barney...gays so called "protest march" is a bunch of dudes cruising...it's like another pride event...don't waste the time of the american public with your antics they don't feel sorry for you guys...sorry its the truth
I really don't like Barney Frank. But as much as I hate to admit it, I agree with him. Mostly the marches just reinforce negative stereotypes. The only people who like the marches are the ones who agree with the message anyway.
10/11/2009 12:24 PM
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Timmy
TOTALLY AGREE SHAWN! Do the marches even have the power that they used to have? But...guys and gals that are going... God Bless. At least you're doing what you think is right.
Agree with the prior person on here said he was outed, and did not come out. So by that fact, and his words I think he has not completely accepting who he is. Plus demonstrations are people demanding, and not going to stand down which disturbs the political establishments. (Democrats and Republicans)And he is definitely a party man, and definitely after all these years part of the establishment. I think he should remember saying from another Democrat "You have nothing to fear but fear itself.." I think he is afraid of gays being in the spot light...but you give people power if you hide in shame and fear. I think he would be very happy back in the closet with his fears.
What you have to remember is that Barney Frank was not elected as an openly gay man, but rather "outed" only after the then boyfriend, running a prostitution ring out of his washington townhouse. At that time I didn't think he would ever be elected again, but here we are, 15 elected terms later (Im not sure of the exact #)& this is what we're getting, "pressure on the grass." In my own opinion, the men & women that are marching today are more likely to be the very proactive gays that are indeed writing or at least sending emails to their congressional representatives as about their only means to express some avenue of effective policy change. Like any other long term elected official, the one thing they all have in common is "what I am going to do next?" (should I not be re-elected?) He doesn't want to ruffle the President's feathers because he either wants a high paid consulting job with Housing & Urban Development or a Cabinet post, should Obama hopefully have a second term. I actually like the guy, but he should be behind any attempt at our visibility, whether it be a poorly planned march or the incremental advancements in legislation supported by the HRC, about the only highly visible lobbying organization we have in place. Gay rights doesn't have to top his priority list, but it should be right up there.
Maybe this is cynical, but for the past 10 years, Barney Frank has been "the gay" on Capitol Hill. Now all of a sudden he's realized that he can't keep the gays in line and he's not as relevant as he once thought. . .
Aren't we suppossed to be applauding him? I mean he is a democrat and we are to blindly support them because they really care about gay rights. Right? LOL
10/11/2009 4:51 AM
2|0
Thomas
He's more concerned with the image of the
dem party than gays I betchya and this demonstration is going to put democrats
more in a spot of coming out so to speak and actually acting on their promises or make them
look bad if they do nothing
Folks, he's saying this because gay people DON'T have an effective lobbying presence is Washington. He's telling you to wake up and recognize that fact. Throwing ourselves a big fun party every few years isn't an effective substitute for political organizing. If these marches produced tangible gains then it would be different. But they don't produce tangible gains. They don't result in new legislation. They don't draw big media attention. They don't galvanize public support. The marches DO consume a lot of time, money, energy and other resources that could be used more effectively to advance our cause. OK, so it makes everyone feel good to go to a big gay party. So what? But you're deluding yourself if you believe this time, for once, there will be a "media spotlight on the NEM". It hasn't happened before. Why should it happen now? We need to get serious about building our political muscle. We represent 5-10% of the population, but look at where we are politically. We're having to struggle for just the most basic rights (like marriage), and fight back against persistent efforts to demonize us. We don't have effective political organization and lobbying efforts, and it shows.
10/11/2009 12:17 AM
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Alex
I just don't understand why now? He's been a Congressman since the early eighties, and there has been 3 march for LGBT rights... He never piped up on those? Does he feel that this march could effect democratic election that could lose a majority and in effect just trying to save his seat as chairman of house financial committee?
10/11/2009 12:16 AM
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Daniel²
Barney Frank was a scumbag long before this latest drama with the gay march. Let's not forget that he was also one of the biggest supporters of Fannie and Freddie and that he used his political influence to block every attempt to regulate them. Frank is corrupt to the core. True, he's also gay, but that doesn't mean we have to like him.
Barney Frank is an unattractive, bloated crone with the shrillest of lisps. He is so gay, when his mouth opens, hydrangea leaves fall out. No one wants to fuck him, let alone marry him. I'd be vocally irritated too.
10/10/2009 11:54 PM
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Jason
HIs life may suck, but why throw us all under the bus. Geez.
10/10/2009 9:51 PM
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Stace
I listened to the interview and he came across as a real douche.
Rep. Barney Frank, an openly gay member of Congress, says he'd rather see gay rights supporters lobbying their elected officials than marching in Washington this weekend, calling the demonstration "a waste of time at best."
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